Hi Paul - no problem in mentioning the email - I just did not want to clutter the topic (I am sensitive about that). Some response.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]you seem to hold self--which is the same wicked heart the Word indicts--in very high regard, as though the Holy Spirit were under obligation to preserve all that He finds there, rather than putting it all to death. "</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>This is a mis understanding of my point. My fundamental point at the end of my last post was EXACTLY to submit oneself to the work of the Holy Spirit and that He would do the necessary crucifixion and glorification (vs. the flesh/human mind/reasoning doing so as I was concerned I saw ample example of). Does this help?<br><br>Also, I think we have to be careful how we use words. I don't necessarily equate "self" with the "wicked heart" though I know a lot of preachers rather easily do so.<br><br>Further, if our heart is only desparately wicked, how could Jesus call us to love God with all of our heart. The answer is that there is more to this than simple semantics and we must get below what I am concerned can be a knee jerk reaction to certain words based on what we have been taught.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]You are in effect re-writing the indictment--the references to sexual immorality in particular--to accomodate your own violations of it. You are quite happy to bolster your case by claiming a host of co-defendants: "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." (Romans 1:32)</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Are you suggesting that people who masturbate deserve death?<br><br>I see the leaven of Pharisees as tying great loads on men's backs and then fail to lift a finger to help them carry them.<br><br>Nevertheless, I think your references to sexual immorality are good. While left specifically undefined, we recognize that such behavior exists. For the most part it is obvious - bestiality, homosexulity, fornication (defined as temple prostitution) and the ICor example of a man lying with his father's wife are good examples. <br><br>More than anything, my focus has been on the heart - opening and submitting it to the Lord - calling others to do so rather than place themselves into bondage to men's perverted ideas of sexual ethics based on their ideals (or, the "wicked heart" that you rightly condem) rather than based on the nature of God and His creation (specifically our bodies in this case). I appeal to the latter in the same way that the creation of God is appealed to throughout scripture as a basis for understanding who God is.<br><br>In Christ,<br>Greg
