The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Belief a Choice?

A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously choose to believe things. If you are one of them perhaps one of you can help me. I have never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously choose to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I do not believe that "x" exists or is true, but I choose to believe that "x" exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that "x" exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appears in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron" and who hides his gold at the end of a rainbow and if ever captured has to grant three wishes. So, assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

When a believer examines the Scriptures, he might discover something in it's pages that is different from what he had always believed to be true. When the Bible proves me wrong about something I have believed, it is my duty to change my belief, bringing it into conformity with the Scriptures. The bible calls that "correction:"


The duty of every believer is to be "always reforming," always subjecting himself to the word of God, always ready to repent of false belief and vain practice.

Now, just in case I completely missed the point of your question in my first reply, let me try again, assuming that your question has to do with how a person can go from UNBELIEF (atheism, for example) to suddenly believing the Gospel.

That's the same kind of question that Nicodemus asked the Lord (John's gospel, chapter 3):

"How can a man be born again? Can he enter the womb a second time and be born?"

Jesus, of course, was talking about spiritual rebirth rather than physical. And in fact, it is as you describe it - supernatural.

Faith is not possible for one who has not been "born again!" But the New Birth is from Above, not from within. It takes place when God sovereignly and supernaturally gives new life to a soul that had been dead. A captive will must first be freed from it's bondage before it is free to accept the truth of the Gospel.


It really does take a miracle to believe the gospel.

1. So are you saying you believe things unconsciously vs. consciously?

2. Choice is a matter of the will.

3. The "will" does not... cannot function independently. The will, the making of a choice, is determined by either the intellect or affections or both. Jonathan Edwards is correct in saying that a man will ALWAYS choose that which is most desirable/important to him under any given circumstance.

4. There may be choices a person makes which are not immediately perceptible to the conscious, but the majority of choices certainly are done consciously.

5. So, to sum up, choices are made and determined according to the predominate element at the time. If what a person knows outweighs the affections/desires, then the choice will be made due to knowledge. If a persons affections are stronger than the intellect, then the will; the choice, will be according to that desire. And, there are occasions when the will is moved by a combination of the two.

As an aside, and going in the direction that Robin has taken in regard to biblical saving faith... the unregenerate man will not believe because he cannot believe. And he cannot believe because he will not believe. The natural (unregenerate) man is governed by a corrupt, depraved, spiritually dead nature which is predisposed only toward sin. The natural man hates God and all that is good and and therefore every choice made is contrary to God. The regenerate man is endowed with a "renewed will", i.e., the intellect and affections are radically changed and predisposed to loving God and doing all that is good, albeit not completely nor perfectly due to a remnant of the sinful nature being resident, aka: the "old man". As the unregenerate man naturally and most willingly rejects the truth, the regenerate man naturally and most willing understands and embraces the truth.

Pilgrim,

re: "So are you saying you believe things unconsciously vs. consciously?"

I would guess that when a new belief is realized that it is caused, most likely by a process occurring in my subconscious mind due to an exposure to outside stimuli, such as literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience, etc.



re: " Jonathan Edwards is correct in saying that a man will ALWAYS choose that which is most desirable/important to him under any given circumstance."

But if he had to, could he consciously CHOOSE to believe that which is not most disirable/important to him?

Methinks you have avoided the question. And what is "when a new belief is realized..."?? The subject is whether "belief", i.e., to embrace something or someone is done deliberately (consciously) or as it appears to be your view, unconsciously. So, you are not aware why it is you believe anything?

1. Is the "he" you are referring to Jonathan Edwards?
2. No! All... every choice made by any person is done according to that person's predisposition, whether of the renewed spirit or the flesh. For example, one might be confronted with the temptation to use cocaine. And, intellectually, one might reason that there are myriad reasons why that would not be a good idea. But the person's desire to 'fit in', impress someone, etc., etc., might be stronger at that particular moment and thus the choice made would be against better judgment. The choice would be most deliberate and thus conscious.

Am I missing something here?

Pilgrim,

re: "1. Is the 'he' you are referring to Jonathan Edwards?"

No. The "he" is the man to whom Edwards is referring.



re: "The choice would be most deliberate and thus conscious. Am I missing something here?"

Yes, because you're talking about choosing to take physical actions, e.g., using cocaine whereas I'm talking about the conscious engendering of new beliefs.

Hmmm, I thought I had made this very clear. EVERY movement of the will, aka: choice, whether physical or intellectual (belief) is a conscious act. Believing upon Christ unto justification is a most conscious act/choice for it is preceded by a conviction of sin. One's entire being; intellect, affections and will are involved, which is fiduciary, a matter of deliberate trust. The regeneration of the Spirit which enables and brings a person to that point is sovereign, silent and secret, i.e., the regeneration itself is non-experiential, but the results of it are most realized. It isn't the case that one hates God and all that is good and has no interest whatsoever in 'being saved' (reconciled to an angry God, having all one's sins remitted on the basis of the Lord Christ's vicarious substitutionary atonement, and living a life of holiness) and suddenly without any conscious perception desire and act upon those things having embraced the verity and necessity of them.

Now, what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

Pilgrim,

re: "...what exactly is the point you are trying to make?"

I'm not trying to make a point. The OP is simply asking someone who thinks that they have the ability to consciously choose to believe things to demonstrate their ability and if possible explain how they do it.

1. So you ARE trying to make a point.

2. It also appears that you hold the position that belief is something done unconsciously. Would that be your position?

3. I have repeatedly answered your question and stated that most all "beliefs" are conscious for they are the result of one's knowledge of what is believed or one's affections for what they believe or in most cases a combination of the two. I believe (a conscious decision on my part), that Jonathan Edwards stated it correctly when he wrote that, A man always chooses that which is most important to him at any given time and in any given circumstance. A person's nature determines what is most important.

So, the proverbial ball is back in your court, sir.

rstrats, I am confused. I thought that you were the OP and well, I don't understand the leprechaun connection at all. People can choose to believe what they want. And certainly some people have chosen to believe in leprechauns. People choose to believe in a whole lot of things. So what is your point? Is it that man by nature is an idolator? And will choose to believe in anything but the God of the Bible? Unless he is given a new nature in regeneration, he cannot and will not believe in the God of the Bible. Am I totally off base here? Sorry, but I am taking a stab at trying to understand your point.

chestnutmare,

re: "...I am confused. I thought that you were the OP..."

And you are correct in thinking that, because I am the original poster.


re: "...I don't understand the leprechaun connection at all."

I suggested leprechauns for the demonstration because I thought most folks wouldn't already have a belief in them.


re: "People can choose to believe what they want."

And I'm simply asking for a realtime demonstration of such an ability.


re: "So what is your point?"

My point - if it can really be called a point - is that I have never been able to consciously choose to believe things, and I would like to have that ability.

Pilgrim,

re: " It also appears that you hold the position that belief is something done unconsciously. Would that be your position?"

Since I have beliefs, and since I have not consciously engendered them, I would quess that they have come about through some subconscious process.

I would dispute your claim that you have embraced beliefs which you have not done so consciously. Why? Because the incontrovertible truth is that ALL belief is an exercise of the will (choice) which is the result of one intellectually knowing facts and/or the affections being attracted to those facts or ideas. Your conscience is involved whether you think they are or not.

IF your view is correct, then no one is responsible for what they choose to believe because they would be the result of something outside of themselves... which would be what? Neither God nor Satan nor any of his minions 'believes' for anyone. The belief is something the individual does, again based upon knowledge and/or affections. One doesn't think unconsciously. And certainly an affinity to something stemming from personal affection/desire is something everyone is conscious of.

Pilgrim,

re: "I would dispute your claim that you have embraced beliefs which you have not done so consciously. Why? Because the incontrovertible truth is that ALL belief is an exercise of the will (choice)..."

Then I would ask you to demonstrate your ability to consciously engender a new belief by doing as requested in the OP.