The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum RCC

I've been asked to present good evidence of persecution by the RCC against christians especially for the crime of possessing a bible.

Suggestions?

Hitch

What comes to mind when I think about your question is William Tyndale.

You can find out information about him and his English Bible translation here.
You will need to scroll down the page to see information about William Tyndale; however, you might also want to read some of the other information at this site.

Also, I found this article by using the Highway search engine.

Tom

Thanx Tom

Hitch,
You are probably aware of Fox's Book of Martyrs but if not, chapter VI describes percusations under the Papacy and chapter XII will give you info on William Tyndale.

I understand you may disagree with the Catholic Church, but is your interest in the truth, or any accusation against the Catholic Church that you think may stick? I think you'll have slim luck trying to demonstrate that the RCC persecutes the carrying of Bibles, especially since the late Pope John Paul II has done much to put copies of the Bible and the Catechism in the hands of the laity and encouraged them to read both. There simply isn't any truth to this charge at all.

However, you'll find abundant evidence that Communists (AKA atheists) are imprisoning people for possessing Bibles and destroying Bibles that they encounter. This is especially true in Vietnam and China. If your interest is in the truth, then go where the truth leads you, my friend.

Has this always been the practice of the RCC?Well that certainly excuses the Inquisition.


Im puzzled. If it was proper and papally sacntioned to burn heretics, as defined by the RCC, say as Tyndale was executed, what is different now? Why is this formerly common RCC practice no longer in use? Is there a dearth of heretics? Infallibility carries a lot of problems not the least of is accountability.

My interest is truth and I have yet to come across any group ,cult, or organization more adept at cherry picking and spin than the spokemen of the RCC. They make congressional democrats look like amateurs.

It's not hard to make Congressional Democrats look like amateurs. They are like large children incapable of critical thought and lacking in the foresight to view an idea from beginning to end and visualize all the natural consequences of that idea...such as raising taxes on the "rich". The reason they are in power at all is because Americans in general are dumbed down dimwits.

There's two ways to look at the Catholic Church's defense of the Bible. In the early church some attempted to introduce heretical and gnostic works as inspired scripture. The Church responded by officiating a canon in the counsels of Rome and Hippo and rejecting all books outside of it. The faithful preservation of the holy Scriptures through the centuries has been a top priority especially as scribes set about the often lifelong task of making copies by pen and parchment. To ensure against the infiltration of errors or outright revisions, copies could not be made without the imprimatur of the bishop.

It's easy to second guess history, but never wise. We have today a Bible that we can rest assured is uncorrupted because of the due diligence of the Catholic Church. Martin Luther was a good example of why this diligence was needed. After he defected and began his own German copies, he removed books and rewrote parts of the epistles to promote his "faith only" doctrine. He did so citing no greater authority than himself. What he did was precisely what the Church had been defending the Bible against for many centuries, even by force of law at times.

My question to you is are you trying to make the point that the CC today is persecuting those with Bibles or are you approaching this an an historical practice?

Historical.


The way we say that now is ''enhanced interrogation' .

When a Bible cost more than most people made in a year, you don't think laws should be in place to protect it?

LOL Mormons carry a card with pat answers too.

Sorry, but I'm a bit contused!

I don't see the corrolation between the cost of a Bible and the warrant to create a law that restricts it from being owned or especially read by an individual. Would individual ownership/use in some way threaten the existence of the Bible?

I take that to mean you can muster no plausible response. I have more respect for a Mormon who can deftly defend his beliefs than someone who responds to challenges with blunt redirects. I'm a Catholic on a Reformation forum. While you are allowed to marshall all the weapons in the Protestant arsenal, I am limited by The-Highway rules in what I can say in response. You clearly have the home field advantage and you can't even press your point home?

My first post to you was to test your commitment to the truth. What if you're wrong about the Catholic Church historically being guilty of a wholesale policy of persecuting those who possessed Bibles? Are you interested in the truth, or do you latch blindly to any accusation that assails the Catholic Church? Are you correctable or are you recalcitrant in defending cherished, albeit erroneous beliefs?

Greetings, Pilgrim, and as always, thank you for your forbearance in having a Catholic on your forum.

I guess the answer to your question would depend on how far back we go in history. Before the invention of the printing press, the Bible was copied by monks with an imprimatur from the bishop. The work was tedious, costly, and took decades to accomplish. Sheep were slaughtered by the thousands to make the parchment to write on. As you may know, each town had one church, usually in the center of town and that church had one Bible, a treasure that belonged to everyone in that dioces. If there were any private ownership of a Bible, as you can imagine, the owner would have to be very wealthy indeed.

While average people didn't own Bibles, it was customary to own single pages of the Holy Scripture; perhaps a Psalm, or a part of the gospels, or part of an epistle. People traded these with each other and so ordinary people found a way to have access to much of the Holy Scriptures.

With the invention of the printing press, the availability of the Bible would improve but slowly. It was still a costly endeavor to make a full Bible. To answer your question, a Bible was a precious resource and that's why there were laws protecting it and ensuring that it wouldn't be subject to corruption or error. It took an organization, in particular, the Church, to do so. We have much to be grateful for. Because of the due diligence of faithful monks in the Catholic Church, we have in our possession today a Bible we can trust has been unaltered since the original canon was officiated in the Councils of Rome and Hippo in 393 A.D. It's a frivolous thing to second guess history, especially when that thing in question is a stunning success.

In Christ's most Sacred Heart.

There is no 'forbearance' necessary having YOU on this Board. Since the day you joined here you have conducted yourself admirably and amiably toward those who are in disagreement with some of your views.

Now, I am familiar with what you wrote in your response. I do have some knowledge and understanding about the transmission of the Scriptures. In fact, there are articles on The Highway main website on this very subject. However, I feel you didn't actually answer my question, which I will repeat here:

I am more of a realist having read enough history to know that the RCC did, in fact, forbid the laity to own or even read the Bible. That is no longer true and I can unabashedly admit that today there are some Catholics who read and study the Bible far more than many so-called Protestants. Thus, for me the entire subject of what the Roman State Church did hundreds of years ago which is no longer practiced today is a mute issue. It makes for interesting history but not much more. The matter of the doctrine of justification is an entirely different matter because the RCC's view on this subject is essentially the same today since it was formulated. Now THAT is relevant!

Enjoy your stay here, which I fear will be not for much longer due to the lack of Protestant interest and financial support.

Your game doesnt interest me, and I wont add to the list of unanswered quetions already posted, your dodges are as obvious as they are boringsee above