The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum How would you evaluate the following statement?

Johan,

This is yet another example of the "dumbing down" of what Scripture teaches concerning the noetic effects of the Fall, e.g., Original Sin with its depravity of nature. The Bible is VERY explicit in describing fallen man's condition in myriad ways and in myriad places. I won't take the trouble of providing all the relevant passages (don't have time nor the space here) but here are a few to show that this corruption of nature isn't simply a "passive condition", e.g., wrong thinking or a lack of proper knowledge:

Mark 7:21-23 (ASV) "For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness: all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man." (seems clear that there is more here than a 'frame of mind' problem. The very being of fallen man is corrupt and thus he does only wickedness.)

John 3:19 (ASV) "And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil." (both the emotions/affections and actions are corrupt and evil)

Romans 8:7 (ASV) "because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:" (There is a natural hatred, enmity expressed toward God.)

Ephesians 4:17-19 (ASV) "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." (The mind is certainly mentioned here and said to be futile in its thinking... BUT the reason/cause it is so is because of its ignorance and this ignorance is self-induced due to the hardness of heart, i.e., their total rejection of God and all that pertains to Him. cf. Rom 1:18ff)

Titus 1:15-16 (ASV) "To the pure all things are pure: but to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (The natural man is defiled and unbelieving in BOTH their mind and conscience which is expressed in their wicked deeds.)

The natural man needs far more than a simple change of mind. He is in dire need of a radical transformation of the soul, aka: regeneration out of which the whole man is changed; a heart of flesh is created which effects the mind, affections and will.