I think some study into baptism's significance as a Jewish puricication rite, the use of the term in the NT, and the invarience of it's practice in the early church would be worth it's time.
Yes, and then we can see the inference of familial inclusion in both testaments. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Mat 3:16 (ESV) And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
(KJV) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
(NASB) After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Abert Barnes Notes Mat 3:16 - Out of the water - This shows that he had descended to the river. It literally means, “he went up directly from the water.” The original does not imply that they had descended into the river, and it cannot be proved, therefore, from this passage, that his baptism was by immersion; nor can it be proved that even, if his baptism was by immersion, that therefore the same mode is binding on people now. In order to demonstrate from this passage that immersion is essential, it is necessary to demonstrate: (a) that he went into the river; (b) that, being there, he was wholly immersed; (c) that the fact that he was immersed, if he was, proves that all others must be, in order that there could be a valid baptism. Neither of these three things has ever been demonstrated from this passage, nor can they be.
It seems to me as well that to much is being pressed onto the passage here. Let's look at another similar passage for clarification.
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Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. (KJV)
For your assertion to be true, both the baptizee as well as the baptizer must "go down into" so they can "come up out of" the same. Now let's look at that Matthew passage again.
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Mat 3:5-6 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. (KJV)
And another similar passage.......
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Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (KJV)
Have you ever baptised anybody by total immersion? I have. It's a chore for medium sized people. After about ten you start getting very tired. Thousands, without a miraculous sustaining from God, is really not feasible.
God bless,
william
Last edited by averagefellar; Fri Dec 31, 200411:00 AM.
