Hi Tom,
To answer your questions...
Yes, I go to a reformed Baptist church, and believe everything that reformed Baptists believe (except for baptism
). Forgive me that things on this thread are confusing, and for my lack of clarity. This topic has only been the object of my study for a short amount of time, and I take the exhortation to write more concisely. However, it has been a topic that my father has thrashed out for many years (with my pastor and previous pastors). I personally have not yet spoken to my pastor because of my dad's interaction with him. So I guess I'm not coming from anywhere aside from what my dad taught me. I wrote 90% of that document from scratch before finding out about Lunginbill. But actually, much of what I've said IS what many Baptists believe. For example:
1. That baptism in the Epistles is spiritual, as MacArthur and Grudem point out.
2. That Acts is a transitionary period between covenants, and is
sometimes transitory in practice.
3. That baptism in not necessary for membership nor eldership because of 1 Cor 12:13 (as my pastor believes).
Some aspects of my thoughts on baptism are not novel (relatively speaking), but have been around for over 300 years. Pilgrim has already hinted who the individuals were who held to these beliefs, whom I fear to name, because of the prejudice it creates in peoples minds. But I will risk it, because there is a nugget of truth to be gained from even the worst of theologians. This is a summary of my thoughts at the moment:
We reverently believe that, as there is one Lord and one faith, so there is, under the Christian dispensation, but one baptism, (Eph 4:4,5) even that whereby all believers are baptized in the one Spirit into the one body (1 Cor 12:13), [and thereby sealed for the day of Redemption (2 Cor.1:21-22; Eph.1:13-14; 4:30).] This is not an outward baptism with water, but a spiritual experience [upon conversion]; not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, (1 Pet 3:21) but that inward work which ["saves"], by transforming the heart and settling the soul upon Christ, brings forth the answer of a good conscience towards God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, in the experience of His love and power, as the risen and ascended Savior. No baptism in outward water can satisfy the description of the apostle, of being buried with Christ by baptism unto death. (Rom 6:4) It is with the Spirit alone, [by whom we receive renewal and "the washing of regeneration" (Titus 3:5, Ezek 36:25, John 15:3), "through the word" (Eph 5:26)], that any can thus be baptized. In this experience the announcement of the Forerunner of our Lord is fulfilled, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." (Matt 3:11) In this view we accept the commission of our blessed Lord as given in Matthew 28:18, 19 and 20th verses: "And Jesus came to them and spake unto them saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you, and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." This commission, as we believe, was not designed to set up a new ritual under the new covenant, or to connect the initiation into a membership, in its nature essentially spiritual (1 Cor 12:13), with a mere ceremony of a typical character. Otherwise it was not possible for the Apostle Paul, who was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostle, (2 Cor 11:5) to have disclaimed that which would, in that case, have been of the essence of his commission when he wrote, "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." (1 Cor 1:17) [Christ's commission was then either temporarily directed only to the early disciples prior to the writing of the Epistles (after Acts 19:21, ESV notes; as Mark 16:17) if referring to water; or it is a reference to the means by which believers would be united with God (lit. baptised "into"), namely through preaching and teaching (John 17:20-23, Eph 3:6, 3:17, Rom 10:17, Gal. 3:14, 3:26-27, 1 Peter 1:23); or it is an explicit reference to how the Apostles (Mat 28:16) were to give the Spirit through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:17, 8:18, 19:6), by which means union with Christ was attained (Rom 8:9-11).]
“We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” (Nicene Creed)
The statements in [
italics] are mine, the last of which is quite inconclusive.
I just want to point something out, which to put it lightly, freaks me out
completely. I read a website which quoted more than 20 early church fathers. Their unanimous testimony was that we are reborn in water baptism, and that baptism is to be given also to infants. Ambrose, Clement, Augustine, Basil, Tertullian, you name it. In fact I read from Clement, the water of baptism "alone can quench the violence of the future fire", and "confer salvation." and Jerome, "'Q. Tell me, pray, and rid me of all doubts, why little children are baptized? A. That their sins may be forgiven them in baptism." You would be
shocked to hear what they say about original sin and baptism. Let me remind you that Luther's view was much more in line with this: "It works the forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives all eternal salvation who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare." But modern paedobaptists and baptists in particular are totally out of sync with this. In fact, the baptist view, if I am not mistaken, is the most novel of all; indeed, almost as novel as the view which Robert Barclay had in 1678 -- that Baptism with the Spirit supersedes baptism with water. Anyway, that was just food for thought...What's going on here?!
Pilgrim, I hold these views with a light fist. This
is my "prelimary" view, which I hope to address with my pastor soon. Sadly, though, he has delayed 5 years in giving my dad a Scriptural answer to this topic, which is one of the reasons why I posted the topic here. At the moment, I am seriously considering the validity of my view, though of course, it seems right to me at the moment... perhaps things will change. But Jeff, what am I to do? How am I do contradict my conscience? What if I am still not persuaded by my pastor when I speak to him? In fact, should I not rather submit to the testimony of the early church... baptismal regeneration and washing away of sins with water?
IF <--- they all hold to baptismal salvation then surely, to be consistant, you should also? "How is it that all the brilliant men which God has raised up in the Church throughout history" are all wrong, and that "you unabashedly stand against" their teaching?
